More Win CE

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More Win CE

Uffe Kousgaard
Does the output from the wince compiler work with specific versions of win
CE?

This page lists versions 3.0, 4.20 and 5.2 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile



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Re: More Win CE

Sven Barth-2
On 12.11.2010 14:56, Uffe Kousgaard wrote:
> Does the output from the wince compiler work with specific versions of win
> CE?
>
> This page lists versions 3.0, 4.20 and 5.2 :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile

I had tested it on Windows Pocket PC 2003, Windows Mobile 5, 6, 6.5 and
6.5.3. Of course it depends on what features of the OS you use, but
basically it should run down to Windows Pocket PC 2003 and maybe even 2002.

According to Wikipedia these OSes have the following CE versions:

Windows Pocket PC 2002: Windows CE 3.0
Windows Pocket PC 2003: Windows CE 4.2
Windows Mobile 5: Windows CE 5.0(?)
Windows Mobile 6: Windows CE 5.2
Windows Mobile 6.5: Windows CE 5.x
Windows Mobile 6.5.3: Windows CE 5.x

Free Pascal applications won't run on Windows Phone 7, but they might
run on "pure" Windows CE 6 and 7 systems (not tested though).

Regards,
Sven
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Re: More Win CE

zaher dirkey
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Sven Barth <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 12.11.2010 14:56, Uffe Kousgaard wrote:
Does the output from the wince compiler work with specific versions of win
CE?

This page lists versions 3.0, 4.20 and 5.2 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile

I had tested it on Windows Pocket PC 2003, Windows Mobile 5, 6, 6.5 and 6.5.3. Of course it depends on what features of the OS you use, but basically it should run down to Windows Pocket PC 2003 and maybe even 2002.

According to Wikipedia these OSes have the following CE versions:

Windows Pocket PC 2002: Windows CE 3.0
Windows Pocket PC 2003: Windows CE 4.2
Windows Mobile 5: Windows CE 5.0(?)
Windows Mobile 6: Windows CE 5.2
Windows Mobile 6.5: Windows CE 5.x
Windows Mobile 6.5.3: Windows CE 5.x


I test it and worked for me in real devices
Windows 5.0, Windows 5.2
WM5.0, WM6.0 WM6.5

--
Zaher Dirkey

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Re[2]: [fpc-pascal] More Win CE

Fantomas
In reply to this post by Sven Barth-2

> Free Pascal applications won't run on Windows Phone 7, but they might
> run on "pure" Windows CE 6 and 7 systems (not tested though).

Will not they really run under Windows Phone?

--
Best regards,
Fantomas

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Re: More Win CE

Sven Barth-2
Am 16.11.2010 12:02, schrieb Fantomas:
>
>> Free Pascal applications won't run on Windows Phone 7, but they might
>> run on "pure" Windows CE 6 and 7 systems (not tested though).
>
> Will not they really run under Windows Phone?

At least not on unhacked devices, cause they only allow .NET
applications (more precise: Silverlight and XNA applications). One of
those decisions that I can not (and want not) understand...

Regards,
Sven
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Re: More Win CE

Max Vlasov
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Sven Barth <[hidden email]> wrote:
At least not on unhacked devices, cause they only allow .NET applications (more precise: Silverlight and XNA applications). One of those decisions that I can not (and want not) understand...


Sven, although I understand what you're talking about, I think this is a case when MS partially learned from their own mistakes as well as from google success. As long as I remember, even first Windows CE binaries could be created for several processors architecures, while the main competitor, Palm, only to a single (Motorola). The latter was a real benefit for general user. Managed code (if I understand this concept correctly) would allow exsting multiply process architectures transparent to the developer. Imagine x86 architecture would finally overcome power-saving issues and be the winner over ARM (unlikely, but just imagine), who would not suffer? Andorid and Windows Phone, and who would have hard times? iOS and Symbian

Although, on the other side, if your writing native, you will invest in something more solid. Motorola processor is gone, but the c code for example of my reader for PalmOS is open source and anyone can change it at least leaving some code from the past. Knowing the MS attitute toward backward compatibility in general, invest or not invest in .Net and Silverlight is a big question.

Max Vlasov

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Re: More Win CE

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Max Vlasov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sven, although I understand what you're talking about, I think this is a
> case when MS partially learned from their own mistakes as well as from
> google success.

No, it has nothing to do with it.

They really are just evil, unethical and not worth a single drop of trust.

> As long as I remember, even first Windows CE binaries could
> be created for several processors architecures, while the main competitor,
> Palm, only to a single (Motorola). The latter was a real benefit for general
> user.

Of all other factors which make Palm obsolete you picked up a small
technical detail which the users couldn't care less about.

> Managed code (if I understand this concept correctly) would allow
> exsting multiply process architectures transparent to the developer. Imagine
> x86 architecture would finally overcome power-saving issues and be the
> winner over ARM (unlikely, but just imagine), who would not suffer? Andorid
> and Windows Phone, and who would have hard times? iOS and Symbian

This problem is non-existant. In the worse case you have one download
per architecture.

And yes, sure, yeah, right that managed code solves anything. I know a
couple of Android apps which have different downloads for version 1.5,
1.6, etc, because of platform differences. How is it better then one
download per architecture + a good designed API with better
compatibility? Even then you can have something like the Universal
Binaries from Mac.

Plus, Mac OS X had no trouble migrating to x86. If anything it was
only better then developing for PowerPC. You can see it as an excelent
example of a successful platform migration.

And if they want to virtualize something they could virtualize one
processor, like Rosetta virtualized PowerPC in x86

> Although, on the other side, if your writing native, you will invest in
> something more solid. Motorola processor is gone, but the c code for example
> of my reader for PalmOS is open source and anyone can change it at least
> leaving some code from the past.

But your c code won't run in Windows Phone.

--
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: More Win CE

Max Vlasov


On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:33 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Max Vlasov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sven, although I understand what you're talking about, I think this is a
> case when MS partially learned from their own mistakes as well as from
> google success.

No, it has nothing to do with it.
They really are just evil, unethical and not worth a single drop of trust.
..
Of all other factors which make Palm obsolete you picked up a small
technical detail which the users couldn't care less about.
...
This problem is non-existant. In the worse case you have one download
per architecture.
...

Ok, Felipe, you're very convincing, besides, it's hard to be a devil's advocate in a world with real working "write once, compile everywhere" mantra :).

Max

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Re: More Win CE

Sven Barth-2
In reply to this post by Max Vlasov
Am 16.11.2010 23:07, schrieb Max Vlasov:

> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Sven Barth <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     At least not on unhacked devices, cause they only allow .NET
>     applications (more precise: Silverlight and XNA applications). One
>     of those decisions that I can not (and want not) understand...
>
>
> Sven, although I understand what you're talking about, I think this is a
> case when MS partially learned from their own mistakes as well as from
> google success. As long as I remember, even first Windows CE binaries
> could be created for several processors architecures, while the main
> competitor, Palm, only to a single (Motorola). The latter was a real
> benefit for general user. Managed code (if I understand this concept
> correctly) would allow exsting multiply process architectures
> transparent to the developer. Imagine x86 architecture would finally
> overcome power-saving issues and be the winner over ARM (unlikely, but
> just imagine), who would not suffer? Andorid and Windows Phone, and who
> would have hard times? iOS and Symbian
>
> Although, on the other side, if your writing native, you will invest in
> something more solid. Motorola processor is gone, but the c code for
> example of my reader for PalmOS is open source and anyone can change it
> at least leaving some code from the past. Knowing the MS attitute toward
> backward compatibility in general, invest or not invest in .Net and
> Silverlight is a big question.

For me Windows Mobile is THE free mobile OS on the market. I can write
applications in any language I want (which supports Windows Mobile...),
I can play around in the OS as I want it. I can basically do anything
with that Phone that is mine as I see necessary.
That's why I dislike Apple, cause they basically think the phone still
belongs to them, and that's why I dislike Android, because I'm forced to
use Java if I want to produce real applications.
And now comes Windows Phone 7 and destroys this dream mobile OS of mine.
Thank you Microsoft.

I hope that some hardware vendors decide to continue developing Windows
Mobile 6.5.x phones... until then I'll enjoy every free bit of my HTC
Wizard.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: More Win CE

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Sven Barth <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And now comes Windows Phone 7 and destroys this dream mobile OS of mine.
> Thank you Microsoft.

You could try MeeGo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo

At the moment with this phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900

I hope that in 2011 Nokia will launch cheaper phones with MeeGo and
that the platform will get cheaper, more stable and with a larger
market share.

--
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: More Win CE

Sven Barth-2
Am 17.11.2010 10:16, schrieb Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho:

> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Sven Barth<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> And now comes Windows Phone 7 and destroys this dream mobile OS of mine.
>> Thank you Microsoft.
>
> You could try MeeGo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo
>
> At the moment with this phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900
>
> I hope that in 2011 Nokia will launch cheaper phones with MeeGo and
> that the platform will get cheaper, more stable and with a larger
> market share.
>

Well... it sounds indeed interesting... :) (especially as Lazarus
supports QT ^^)
Seems like I'll have to keep an eye on MeeGo and phones released with it.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: More Win CE

Matt Emson-2
In reply to this post by Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On 17/11/2010 09:16, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote:
>
> You could try MeeGo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo

Which is. at least in this instance, based on Maemo.

> At the moment with this phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900


My best advice - and this is real world experience speaking - keep clear
of Nokia and Nokia devices. Nokia have a very real history of completely
screwing over developers for their tablet based OS. I was an N800 owner,
and I developed for that platform. I went through NIT-OS 2007 and 2008.
Nokia released the N810, and we were told that "this was just a
revision" and all would continue. The N800 was dropped 6 months later
and we were then told "the N800 will have no further updates, buy an
N810 if you want future releases.." Guess what? They released the N900,
they pretty much shelved the N810 and there was never more than a "hack
level" version of any future OS for the N810.

Next beef - Maemo used "Hildon" as the UI kit. It was based on GTK+. It
was okay - we all may well know the pain of using OO based C API's, but
it certainly was not impossible to develop for at all. So, Nokia
acquires Qt and Trolltech. Announces that Qt will sit along side Hildon
- no one needs to worry about anything, they will both be "first class
citizens" in Maemo land. Um.. well, sure, that lasted for one OS
release. Now Hildon is pretty much dead and all the skillset learned for
the device is gone. Maybe Hildon might still work in part - I don't
really care to find out. All indications to me are that it is gone though.

Next beef - and this is unrelated to Tablets OS; my company was
developing a system using RFID based technology. Nokia had a product
that was almost off the shelf. We were woo-ed by their technical sales
guys and so agreed to sign a contract to use their services and buy
their hardware. We had a substantial amount of custom we were willing to
put their way. Myself and two other guys went on an expensive 2 day
training course and learnt the technology. We scheduled in the
development. Two weeks before we commenced the project, Nokia announced
they were dropping the product, no longer selling the RFID capable
phones and we could only have the service for a maximum of 2 years,
where after it would be shelved. So, we were left high and dry and out
of pocket.

Nokia really does not treat customers of parters well. I would never
willingly develop for their platform(s) again, including Qt.


> I hope that in 2011 Nokia will launch cheaper phones with MeeGo and
> that the platform will get cheaper, more stable and with a larger
> market share

There is little chance that will happen as it assumes Nokia will focus
on Meego... Nokia can't focus on a blade of grass on a sunny day - they
will carry on as is IMO and be shamed in to releasing cheap and shoddy
hardware in a few years when it will be too little too late to save
their business.


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Re: More Win CE

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Matt Emson
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> There is little chance that will happen as it assumes Nokia will focus on
> Meego... Nokia can't focus on a blade of grass on a sunny day - they will
> carry on as is IMO and be shamed in to releasing cheap and shoddy hardware
> in a few years when it will be too little too late to save their business.

Which smartphone platform do you recommend then?

--
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: More Win CE

Matt Emson-2


Sent from my iPhone 4

On 17 Nov 2010, at 15:26, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Which smartphone platform do you recommend then?

None of them are ideal at the moment.  From a Free Pascal perspective, iPhone has the best support.  If I was choosing, I'd probably go for Windows Phone 7 because I code in .Net and WPF, so it's trivial to move to. If I wanted potential Market saturation - Android. Meego is on one device, is it not? I seem to recall the rest of Nokia's phones are Symbian. Even the C7 etc. _______________________________________________
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Re: More Win CE

Max Vlasov
In reply to this post by Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho


On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Matt Emson
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> There is little chance that will happen as it assumes Nokia will focus on
> Meego... Nokia can't focus on a blade of grass on a sunny day - they will
> carry on as is IMO and be shamed in to releasing cheap and shoddy hardware
> in a few years when it will be too little too late to save their business.

Which smartphone platform do you recommend then?



Felipe,
this is an excellent question, cause after the reading all the discussion, one can see also the answer in it  - there's no perfect platform.

But I thought about it recently and I think at least that there's a platform that could be such  - Symbian. I know that there was a big drop in popularity for it and also from the developer point of view it's a devil since they were probably the first introducing signing (=approving) years before Apple. But there are factors that can be considered:
- Native compiling approach from the start, ARM-based as long as I remember
- This is the core business for Nokia, they did the move from general handsets to smartphones as seamless as possible so half of the their handsets selling in Europe are smartphones and a large part of the consumers even doesn't know about this fact. It means that no matter who would win in a tech-savvy part of the world, but there will always be many peoples giving money to Nokia for smartphones buying them only for being good phones. The fact that this is a very important part of Nokia business means that they won't kill it in one day. Maemo, MeGoo is different, it's an experiment from the buisness point of view.
- Symbian is the only polished platform for 9-key devices (remember, you general phones are still umber-key devices) . I own a Nokia 6120c for several years and as a telephone it's almost perfect (being also very small) and also there are excellent applications taking advantage of the facts that the keys are the part of the system.  (T9Nav for example). But unfortunately, the competition with iPhone led the team from key-based for touch-based devices.

I think that Nokia just needs to do few additional steps to free the OS: completely open source it and free from signing. From technical point of you it should not be that hard. From the business side it's also interesting since in contrary to Microsoft that has the only revenue from licensing, the Nokia actually sells not software, they sells bells and whistles in hardware: Carl-Zeiss optics, great design, etc and open-source world just can't be a threat in this area.

Max

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Re: More Win CE

Matt Emson-2


Sent from my iPhone 4

On 18 Nov 2010, at 08:31, Max Vlasov <[hidden email]> wrote:

But I thought about it recently and I think at least that there's a platform that could be such  - Symbian. 

Never developed for Symbian using their native SDK, but as an OS - Symbian is extremely backwards. What doesn't help OS that Nokia's are now desperately trying to graft a touch based interface on top. If Nokia was to bite the bullet and drop Symbian in favour of Meego, things might get interesting. Chances are though that will never happen. 

Mind you, at least they seem to keep the ABI and API fairly similar in Symbian. Maemo an Meego, not so much. It was pot luck as to whether apps from a prior NIT OS would still run on later devices. 

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Re: More Win CE

Florian Klämpfl
In reply to this post by Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
Am 17.11.2010 16:26, schrieb Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho:
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Matt Emson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> There is little chance that will happen as it assumes Nokia will focus on
>> Meego... Nokia can't focus on a blade of grass on a sunny day - they will
>> carry on as is IMO and be shamed in to releasing cheap and shoddy hardware
>> in a few years when it will be too little too late to save their business.
>
> Which smartphone platform do you recommend then?
>

There is none anymore :( I'am a long time WM user but WM7 is no option
for me. Neither Android (Java, version mess and Google) or iPhone (too
expensive and Apple).
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Re: More Win CE

Sven Barth-2
Am 19.11.2010 10:13, schrieb Florian Klaempfl:

> Am 17.11.2010 16:26, schrieb Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho:
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Matt Emson
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> There is little chance that will happen as it assumes Nokia will focus on
>>> Meego... Nokia can't focus on a blade of grass on a sunny day - they will
>>> carry on as is IMO and be shamed in to releasing cheap and shoddy hardware
>>> in a few years when it will be too little too late to save their business.
>>
>> Which smartphone platform do you recommend then?
>>
>
> There is none anymore :( I'am a long time WM user but WM7 is no option
> for me. Neither Android (Java, version mess and Google) or iPhone (too
> expensive and Apple).

Wow... I had never thought that there are others that think like me :D

I myself will keep an eye on the development of the MeeGo system... if
there should be a suitable device (capacitive touchscreen, AMOLED, etc)
I might find a new companion.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: More Win CE

And3mD
Dnia 19-11-2010 o 14:24:26 Sven Barth <[hidden email]>  
napisał(a):

> Am 19.11.2010 10:13, schrieb Florian Klaempfl:
>> Am 17.11.2010 16:26, schrieb Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho:
>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Matt Emson
>>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>> There is little chance that will happen as it assumes Nokia will  
>>>> focus on
>>>> Meego... Nokia can't focus on a blade of grass on a sunny day - they  
>>>> will
>>>> carry on as is IMO and be shamed in to releasing cheap and shoddy  
>>>> hardware
>>>> in a few years when it will be too little too late to save their  
>>>> business.
>>>
>>> Which smartphone platform do you recommend then?
>>>
>>
>> There is none anymore :( I'am a long time WM user but WM7 is no option
>> for me. Neither Android (Java, version mess and Google) or iPhone (too
>> expensive and Apple).
>
> Wow... I had never thought that there are others that think like me :D
>
> I myself will keep an eye on the development of the MeeGo system... if  
> there should be a suitable device (capacitive touchscreen, AMOLED, etc)  
> I might find a new companion.
>
> Regards,
> Sven

I have the same problem :)
I don't like java (Android), Apple restrictions and Meego evolution is  
very slow... maybe Samsung bada (bada.com) with C++ API is the answer?

Can fpc do executables for this system?

Regards,
Andrzej Kilijanski
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Re: More Win CE

zaher dirkey
In reply to this post by Sven Barth-2
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Sven Barth <[hidden email]> wrote:

For me Windows Mobile is THE free mobile OS on the market. I can write applications in any language I want (which supports Windows Mobile...), I can play around in the OS as I want it. I can basically do anything with that Phone that is mine as I see necessary.
That's why I dislike Apple, cause they basically think the phone still belongs to them, and that's why I dislike Android, because I'm forced to use Java if I want to produce real applications.
And now comes Windows Phone 7 and destroys this dream mobile OS of mine. Thank you Microsoft.


That is also my pain, i feel something force me to move to .NET or Java, or i must wait for a miracle.

What about to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page?

--
Zaher Dirkey

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