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Missing messages

José Mejuto
Hello,

Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing
list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but
Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

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Re: Missing messages

Wolfe, Robert
Ok, hopefully this will make it your way.

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of José Mejuto <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 10:43 AM
To: FPC-Pascal users discussions
Subject: [fpc-pascal] Missing messages

Hello,

Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing
list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but
Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

--

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Re: Missing messages

Sven Barth-2
In reply to this post by José Mejuto
On 30.10.2016 16:43, José Mejuto wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing
> list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but
> Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully
>

Same here...

Regards,
Sven
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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
On 2016-10-30 17:24, Sven Barth wrote:
> Same here...

First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup
- no issues, no spam and more control over your own messages. After all,
NNTP was designed from the ground up for group communications. My
company server already hosts a couple of groups for various open source
projects, for over 10 years. Adding one more will take all of 1 minute.

Regards,
  Graeme

--
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: Missing messages

David W Noon-2
On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 18:11:55 +0000, Graeme Geldenhuys
([hidden email]) wrote about "Re: [fpc-pascal] Missing
messages" (in <[hidden email]>):

[snip]
> First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup

+1
--
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Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
[hidden email] (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

 



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Re: Missing messages

Jonas Maebe-2
In reply to this post by José Mejuto
José Mejuto wrote:
> Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing
> list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but
> Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

It's because Yahoo publishes mail server records (DMARC) that state that
messages from yahoo.co.id must be signed by Yahoo's mail servers (i.e.,
they must be sent via them), and GMail refuses messages that do not
conform to this requirement. leledumbo posts via an nntp gateway, so he
violates the policies that Yahoo advertises and that GMail checks.

Newer versions of our mailing list software can work around this by
rewriting the from-address, but for that we first have to update our server.


Jonas
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Re: Missing messages

Sven Barth-2

Am 30.10.2016 20:14 schrieb "Jonas Maebe" <[hidden email]>:
>
> José Mejuto wrote:
> > Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing
> > list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but
> > Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully
>
> It's because Yahoo publishes mail server records (DMARC) that state that
> messages from yahoo.co.id must be signed by Yahoo's mail servers (i.e.,
> they must be sent via them), and GMail refuses messages that do not
> conform to this requirement. leledumbo posts via an nntp gateway, so he
> violates the policies that Yahoo advertises and that GMail checks.
>
> Newer versions of our mailing list software can work around this by
> rewriting the from-address, but for that we first have to update our server.

Maybe we should indeed do that. For the Lazarus lists that was already done on their server and I'd guess that the problems will only get worse.

Regards,
Sven


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Re: Missing messages

Florian Klämpfl
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-6
Am 30.10.2016 um 19:11 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
> On 2016-10-30 17:24, Sven Barth wrote:
>> Same here...
>
> First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup

I used NNTP years ago the last time. How does marking read messages work when reading a group with
multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?


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Re: Missing messages

Mark Morgan Lloyd-5
On 31/10/16 20:30, Florian Klämpfl wrote:
> Am 30.10.2016 um 19:11 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
>> On 2016-10-30 17:24, Sven Barth wrote:
>>> Same here...
>>
>> First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup
>
> I used NNTP years ago the last time. How does marking read messages work when reading a group with
> multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?

In a per-user database on the device I think.

I'm not aware of any NNTP superset that either allows a user to store
personal state (i.e. the last-unread message number) on an intermediate
server, or allows multiple users to share state by editing existing
messages ** . That's not saying that there's not scope for something to
be written, and this could possibly mesh with Graeme's comments in
fpc-other regarding his custom client.

** Larry Wall, amongst many other people, looked at this. However
broadly speaking NNTP passed its heyday at about the same time that INN
v2 was released, and that implementation had sufficient flaws that it
hastened the protocol's descent to obscurity.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: Missing messages

Ralf Quint
In reply to this post by Florian Klämpfl
On 10/31/2016 1:12 PM, Florian Klämpfl wrote:
> Am 30.10.2016 um 19:11 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
>> On 2016-10-30 17:24, Sven Barth wrote:
>>> Same here...
>> First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup
> I used NNTP years ago the last time. How does marking read messages work when reading a group with
> multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?
It doesn't. You need to download, read and mark each message on each
device separately. Ever since IMAP has become the predominant email
protocol, as servers are no longer short on storage space, there isn't
much actually that REALLY makes a point against mailing lists.

For me, it is far more convenient than usenet, as I can receive emails
for mailing lists on a separate email address, on multiple devices,
which would sync automatically, as they are all set up to use IMAP,
messages get automatically filtered into the right folders. The only
disadvantages that I see at time is the issue of attachments and posting
messages with screenshots for example, which doesn't work (well) on
usenet either and is pretty much an advantage of using a forum in most
cases...

The issues with emails not showing up is commonly due to the sender
playing some shenanigans (intentionally or not), not by the system in
general. And the threshold for spam is lower on a mailing list as well,
as there is usually more of a vetted signup process than on usenet
(where there is none).

Ralf

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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
In reply to this post by Florian Klämpfl
On 2016-10-31 20:12, Florian Klämpfl wrote:
> How does marking read messages work when reading a group with
> multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?

If you are anything like me, I absolutely hate typing on mobile devices
like phones or tablets - it's just to frustrating and slow. So I only
use the web interface to my NNTP server to read posts, if I really must
or am bored somewhere out and about. But none of those posts are ever
that urgent for me to reply immediately.

Then when I get back to my PC, which has a decent keyboard and screen,
then I reply using my normal news client (Thunderbird or XanaNews).

Because I don't really use the web interface often, the unread list
grows relatively quickly. The web interface has a "catch up" feature to
help with that. I can quickly scan the list of messages to see what I
read last, then simply use the Catch Up feature to mark everything up to
that message number as read.


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
In reply to this post by Mark Morgan Lloyd-5
On 2016-10-31 20:50, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> NNTP passed its heyday

I believe NNTP is still just as relevant as the day it was invented. It
follows the Unix philosophy. It was designed of a specific need, and is
very good at what it does - group communications. It doesn't need HTML
or Emojis, all so popular in web forums, because they simply don't
enhance group communications at all. The news client takes care of any
other frills or enhancements like advanced searching, storage, filtering
etc.

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
In reply to this post by Ralf Quint
On 2016-10-31 20:55, Ralf Quint wrote:
> is the issue of attachments and posting
> messages with screenshots for example, which doesn't work (well) on
> usenet either

I'm not talking about Usenet - I stopped using that years ago. I host a
private NNTP server, like many other companies do. In the 10 years I
have done so, I have not had a single issue with attachments in
newsgroup posts, so I have no idea what your issue is referring to.
Maybe you just used a terrible news client.

Web Forums are a pain - most are not mobile device friendly either. eg:
the Lazarus Forums. Then there is also the issue of them not conforming
to Unicode standards eg: the Lazarus Forum. HTML messages and Emojis
also don't contribute anything useful to group communications.

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: Missing messages

Henry Vermaak
In reply to this post by Florian Klämpfl
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 09:12:12PM +0100, Florian Klämpfl wrote:
> Am 30.10.2016 um 19:11 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:
> > On 2016-10-30 17:24, Sven Barth wrote:
> >> Same here...
> >
> > First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup
>
> I used NNTP years ago the last time. How does marking read messages work when reading a group with
> multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?

This is why I don't use NNTP.  I use multiple devices and on most of
them my mail client fires up my favourite editor.  Using a crappy
browser interface doesn't cut it.

Henry
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Re: Missing messages

Jonas Maebe-2
Hi,

Can the discussion about NNTP advantages/disadvantages please be moved
to fpc-other, as Tomas asked near the start of this thread?

Thanks.


Jonas
FPC mailing lists admin
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Re: Missing messages

silvioprog
In reply to this post by José Mejuto

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:43 PM, José Mejuto <[hidden email]> wrote:

>

> Hello,
>
> Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

I've had the same problem (I'm using Gmail client on Google Chrome) for months. Unfortunately, all Sven's/leledumbo's mails still arrive to spam folder, even after I mark them as trusted senders. :-/

-begin off-
Oh my, I remember a big problem I had in my email months ago... trying to reduce receiving spams, I tried clients like Thunderbird, however, I forgot to check the option 'keep the emails on the server', losing all mails from client and server, not knowing if someone had contacted me at that time. x(
-end off-

--
Silvio Clécio


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Re: Missing messages

Mattias Gaertner
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-6

>[...]Then there is also the issue of them not conforming
> to Unicode standards eg: the Lazarus Forum.

What do you mean?

Mattias
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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
On 2016-11-02 11:19, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
>> >[...]Then there is also the issue of them not conforming
>> > to Unicode standards eg: the Lazarus Forum.
> What do you mean?

The Lazarus forum is supposedly able to handle Unicode, yet from what
Juha Manninen found, is that the forum's implementation of Unicode is
flawed. The usual UTF-16 implementation shortcut, where only the BMP is
supported. So it's not really Unicode enabled, but only UCS2.

Here is Juha's post explaining what he tried in the Lazarus Forum:

http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,32159.msg207013.html#msg207013


The test is simple really:
Write a new message in the Lazarus Forum. Use Gnome Character Map tool
(or similar from your OS) and find Unicode glyphs from outside the BMP
range. eg: U+1F03E DOMINO TILE HORIZONTAL-01-06  (🀾) or U+1F60E SMILING
FACE WITH SUNGLASSES (😎). Making sure your web browser can obviously
display those glyphs correctly (having DejaVu Sans installed helps). The
press the "Preview" button in the Forum. It pops up a error message and
the preview message body is left empty.

Regards,
  Graeme

--
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
In reply to this post by Mattias Gaertner
On 2016-11-02 11:19, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> What do you mean?

[something different]

Mattias, do you queue up your outgoing messages before they are actually
sent? Or is it the FPC mailing list acting up on that too?

You message was timestamped Wed 11:19 (my local time), but it only came
through today Thurs around 9:05. That's a long delay.

Regards,
  Graeme

--
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: Missing messages

Graeme Geldenhuys-6
On 2016-11-03 09:51, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> Mattias, do you queue up your outgoing messages before they are actually
> sent? Or is it the FPC mailing list acting up on that too?

Looking at your message's message header information it seems the issue
is at the mailing list end, as your mail server delivered the message
promptly, but then got held up for nearly 24 hours freepascal.dfmk.hu


=============================
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        by freepascal.dfmk.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04D32952;
        Thu,  3 Nov 2016 10:03:15 +0100 (CET)
X-Original-To: [hidden email]
Delivered-To: [hidden email]
Received: from cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de (cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de
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 for <[hidden email]>; Wed,  2 Nov 2016 12:19:21 +0100
(CET)
=============================

Regards,
  Graeme

--
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http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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