Lazarus and FPC integration

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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

L505

> get a wonderful UDE (Unintegrated Development Enviroment).

For an even better UDE you can use Nano or the classic dos Edit program.

Or you could use this:
 http://www.4mhz.de/bfdev.html
 http://www.4mhz.de/img/bfdev1.png


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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Bugzilla from elio@mixtk.com
Ok, i'll byte :-)

El Lun 31 Oct 2005 22:19, L505 escribió:
> > get a wonderful UDE (Unintegrated Development Enviroment).
>
> For an even better UDE you can use Nano or the classic dos Edit program.

I take vi over nano anyday. DOS Edit is a really ofensive editor, but it's
better than nothing i guess.

>
> Or you could use this:
>  http://www.4mhz.de/bfdev.html
>  http://www.4mhz.de/img/bfdev1.png

That's not really an UDE is it?

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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Vincent Snijders
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from elio@mixtk.com
Elio Cuevas Gómez wrote:

> El Lun 31 Oct 2005 00:18, Vincent Snijders escribió:
>
>>Elio Cuevas Gómez wrote:
>>
>>>These are all good things, but if the IDE editor can't handle basic stuff
>>>like international characters it's not very useful.
>>
>>For you. It is useful for most of the English speaking people and those
>>are quiet a lot too, although not as much as the whole world population.
>>And even though I don't live in a English speaking country, I never had
>>problems with it, because all source and comments of my programs are
>>English. Therefore for me it is not a very important issue. It is nice
>>to have for others.
>
>
> Ok i accept that i exagerated when i said Lazarus wasn't useful. But the bug
> is still very annoying and is a serius obstacle to Lazarus adoption
> worldwide. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away,

Whining about it, doesn't fix it. Such problems go away, if a person is
so annoyed with it, that he starts to investigate how to fix it. Me
personally isn't annoyed by it so much, that I want to fix it. I find
other things more annoying (or nice to have), so I rather focus on that.
To misquote Eric Raymond a bit: "1. Every new feature starts by
scratching a developer's personal itch."

> we should be looking
> for the permanent increase of the quality of Lazarus, which would bring more
> users to both projects We do want more users, right?
>

We don't necessarily want more users, but we need more developers, doc
writers, bug fixers etc.

Vincent.
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Micha Nelissen
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from elio@mixtk.com
Elio Cuevas Gómez wrote:
>>(and delphi and VB), it's easy to fall into the trap to base your backend
>>design on the GUI design. If Eclipse or KDevelop have a solution for this
>
> Well, i never said these were better than Lazarus (in fact this is the first
> time i even mention them in this list). For me Eclipse is a resource hog and

Yes, sorry, I replied to the wrong message, I was trying to get a
response from Agustin, not necessarily from you; he did make the Eclipse
comparison, and he said he liked that IDE better for OO stuff. But maybe
that's because the unicode works and there is better refactoring (please
be more specific, Agustin?) ?

Micha

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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Mattias Gaertner
In reply to this post by Team Z505
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:03:09 -0800
Team Z505 <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> >Well, I am aware of the fact that a visual design environment like
> >lazarus (and delphi and VB), it's easy to fall into the trap to base your
> >backend design on the GUI design. If Eclipse or KDevelop have a solution
> >for this problem, then I'd like to hear it, but if they "solve" the
> >problem by not being a visual design environment at all, the complete
> >point is moot; then it's really unfair to say they're better because they
> >*lack* features :-).
> >
> >Micha
>
> Which is why again all that needs to be done is simply the programmer
> needs to ignore the component palette, ignore Form1,

I added menu items to hide the component palette and speed buttons.
See View -> View Component Palette
The IDE bar is not yet resized automatically. Use custom positions in the
environment options.


> and write everything
> from scratch in these cases if he wants to. Just because Emacs has a
> crumby and slow textbased tetris games in it, doesn't mean you have to use
> them either. It's just their for your convenience (yes, I'd hate to see
> games inside Lazarus).

Too bad. With the IDEIntf it is possible to add them.


Mattias
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Agustin Barto
In reply to this post by Team Z505
On 10/31/05, Team Z505 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Have to tried translation tools? I have converted many Russian source code help files from
> the KOL project into English using PROMT translator online. Once in a while you get a funny
> translation like "I hit the code twice before she compiled me". But most of it is pretty
> good and pretty legible, and A LOT more automated than doing it manually.
>
> Translators like alta vista or babelfish are not nearly as good as PROMT.
>

That'll be nice if I WANTED to translate it to english. There's a very
good reason why the code was written in spanish in the first place: El
programa va a ser liberado con licencia GPL, pero si alguien quiere
usarlo, sera mejor que comience a estudiar español desde ahora.
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Vincent Snijders
Agustin Barto wrote:

> On 10/31/05, Team Z505 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>Have to tried translation tools? I have converted many Russian source code help files from
>>the KOL project into English using PROMT translator online. Once in a while you get a funny
>>translation like "I hit the code twice before she compiled me". But most of it is pretty
>>good and pretty legible, and A LOT more automated than doing it manually.
>>
>>Translators like alta vista or babelfish are not nearly as good as PROMT.
>>
>
>
> That'll be nice if I WANTED to translate it to english. There's a very
> good reason why the code was written in spanish in the first place: El
> programa va a ser liberado con licencia GPL, pero si alguien quiere
> usarlo, sera mejor que comience a estudiar español desde ahora.

I don't understand why a user should learn spanish. User and program
maintainer are two different entities, even for GPL released programs.

Vincent.
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Agustin Barto
In reply to this post by Micha Nelissen
On 11/1/05, Micha Nelissen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes, sorry, I replied to the wrong message, I was trying to get a
> response from Agustin, not necessarily from you; he did make the Eclipse
> comparison, and he said he liked that IDE better for OO stuff. But maybe
> that's because the unicode works and there is better refactoring (please
> be more specific, Agustin?) ?

The answer is very simple: I can code faster. Eclipse is a
code-centric IDE (at least for the Java's views) with a lot of very
useful features to speed up the coding/refactoring process.

Lazarus, in that sense, is as good as Delphi; with source code
management tools that are a little simplistic (not entirely a bad
thing). That may be enough for a lot of people, but it certainly isn't
for me.

Of course this comparison means absolutely nothing given that we're
talking about completely different programming languages like
ObjectPascal (and the various fpc supported dialects) and Java (and/or
C++). Also I'm comparing a tool that's backed up huge corporations
against one that's developed with no corporate sponsorship (AFAIK).

At the end of the day it all comes down to which tool generates better
profit margins (I could say something about NetBeans vs Eclipse, but
that would be waaaaay off-topic). For my personal projects I don't
have a problem with Lazarus, or any other IDE/RADs, as long as their
"fun" to use (Lazarus is) and free (speech).
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
In reply to this post by Vincent Snijders
On 11/1/05, Vincent Snijders <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't understand why a user should learn spanish. User and program
> maintainer are two different entities, even for GPL released programs.

You guys are missing the point .... the problem was never about the
users needing to read a language, but about programmers needing to
write comments on their own language.

And no, I won´t comment in english. Right now I just forget the á à ê
and substitute them by a and e.

--
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

L505
In reply to this post by Agustin Barto


>That'll be nice if I WANTED to translate it to english. There's a very
>good reason why the code was written in spanish in the first place: El
>programa va a ser liberado con licencia GPL, pero si alguien quiere
>usarlo, sera mejor que comience a estudiar español desde ahora.


The internet uses english as the standard language. That is why I use it. If it is proven
that some other language should be used as the internet language, then I will use it. I do
enjoy the upside down question marks in spanish, as they help me locate questions in
articles easier (BEGIN and END of question).

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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Bugzilla from elio@mixtk.com
El Mar 01 Nov 2005 15:00, L505 escribió:

> >That'll be nice if I WANTED to translate it to english. There's a very
> >good reason why the code was written in spanish in the first place: El
> >programa va a ser liberado con licencia GPL, pero si alguien quiere
> >usarlo, sera mejor que comience a estudiar español desde ahora.
>
> The internet uses english as the standard language. That is why I use it.
> If it is proven that some other language should be used as the internet
> language, then I will use it. I do enjoy the upside down question marks in
> spanish, as they help me locate questions in articles easier (BEGIN and END
> of question).
>

Really? What's that standard, ihaven't read it :-).
For a GPL program is a good idea to document it in English if you want help
from developers not speaking your language. The rest of the time, English
stinks.
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

L505

>Really? What's that standard, ihaven't read it :-).

http://z505.com/cgi-bin/qkcont/qkcont.cgi?p=English-Internet-Standard

>For a GPL program is a good idea to document it in English if you want help
>from developers not speaking your language. The rest of the time, English
>stinks.


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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Agustin Barto
In reply to this post by L505
On 11/1/05, L505 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The internet uses english as the standard language. That is why I use it. If it is proven
> that some other language should be used as the internet language, then I will use it. I do
> enjoy the upside down question marks in spanish, as they help me locate questions in
> articles easier (BEGIN and END of question).
>

Yeah sure, and russian characters make killer smileys :)

The code for this program is in spanish because it is intended to be
used by researchers (basically it is an implementation of a method for
which there isn't any free implementation). The language choice is
only a matter of principles, it has nothing to do with any technical
reason, in fact I think spanish is a lousy language to use for coding
(it's too verbose and it's hard to get meaningful abbreviations).

I'd like to apologize to anyone that might have gotten offended by any
of my comments, it really wasn't my intention. It also wasn't my
intention to undermine the work of Lazarus' and fpc's developers. All
I can say is I'm sorry and thank you for providing us with a great
compiler and one of the very few integrated multi-platform free
(speech) RADs.
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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

L505



>The code for this program is in spanish because it is intended to be
>used by researchers (basically it is an implementation of a method for
>which there isn't any free implementation). The language choice is
>only a matter of principles, it has nothing to do with any technical

I think there isa  unicode version of synedit and it probably wouldn't take too much work to
get it working for freepascal

"Unicode Version: Actually into CVS there is available a UNICODE Version of synedit,
snapshots are available here"

I'm not experienced with unicode myself, but is this what you are looking for?

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Re: Lazarus and FPC integration

Agustin Barto
On 11/1/05, L505 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think there isa  unicode version of synedit and it probably wouldn't take too much work to
> get it working for freepascal
>
> "Unicode Version: Actually into CVS there is available a UNICODE Version of synedit,
> snapshots are available here"
>
> I'm not experienced with unicode myself, but is this what you are looking for?
>

The problem is not with fpc. In fact the only thing I had to do what
to get the Delphi code to compile was shorten some method names.

I'm using Emacs and JEdit to code Pascal, so type Unicode (or
iso8859-1) is not a problem.

The problem was that I can't type any composed character (like á é ü)
on Lazarus. As someone already corrected me, this problem isn't
related to unicode, but with a gtk+ bug (or something like that).
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