FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

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FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Graeme Geldenhuys-2
Hi,

[rant]
I'm just sick of the idiocy of Linux/Unix with there case sensitive
file systems! Google'ing a round for the reason for this, it seems
that in the 60's, it was C programmers that decided that searching for
case sensitive files was easier to implement (and marginally faster).
Well, 40+ years later, that is totally irrelevant - yet we are still
suck (by default) with case sensitive file systems. Mac OS X, Windows
and OS/2 proves that there is no problems with case insensitive file
systems, even for various locales. It also makes it MUCH easier for
the end-user. I see no reason why Linux must still be stuck with this.
Anyway, that is why I am busy reformatting all my JFS file systems (I
have long ago standardised on JFS) with the -O option to make them
case insensitive.
[/rant]


Anyway, back to the point.... I seriously doubt there would be any
problems, but I'll ask anyway. Has anybody here used JFS (case
insensitive option enabled) with FPC and experienced any problems? I
doubt there would be, because Mac OS X by default is case insensitive
too - and it is also a *nix system.

In the same breath, any possible Lazarus issues?


PS:
Anybody know of other Linux file systems that have a case insensitive
option? I really thought ext2 had this, but searching now through the
man pages, it seems I was mistaken. Anybody know if Btrfs would have
such an option?

--
Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

michael.vancanneyt


On Fri, 24 Feb 2012, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

> Hi,
>
> [rant]
> I'm just sick of the idiocy of Linux/Unix with there case sensitive
> file systems!

Well, some men prefer blondes, others prefer brunettes.

> [/rant]
>
>
> Anyway, back to the point.... I seriously doubt there would be any
> problems, but I'll ask anyway. Has anybody here used JFS (case
> insensitive option enabled) with FPC and experienced any problems? I
> doubt there would be, because Mac OS X by default is case insensitive
> too - and it is also a *nix system.

There is a constant in the system unit which controls the 'case sensitive'
option for filename comparisions. You may have problems, because it is set
to True by default on Linux/Unix

See:

http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/rtl/system/filenamecasesensitive.html

You can set its value, though, it is a typed constant.

Michael.
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Tomas Hajny-2
On Fri, February 24, 2012 12:21, [hidden email] wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
 .
 .

>> Anyway, back to the point.... I seriously doubt there would be any
>> problems, but I'll ask anyway. Has anybody here used JFS (case
>> insensitive option enabled) with FPC and experienced any problems? I
>> doubt there would be, because Mac OS X by default is case insensitive
>> too - and it is also a *nix system.
>
> There is a constant in the system unit which controls the 'case sensitive'
> option for filename comparisions. You may have problems, because it is set
> to True by default on Linux/Unix
>
> See:
>
> http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/rtl/system/filenamecasesensitive.html
>
> You can set its value, though, it is a typed constant.

One concrete example - if you create a unit and store it in a file with a
mixed case name, it will be found by the compiler in your case. If you
share this source with someone else (also using Linux like you), it may
not be found. This would be an equal problem if done by someone on
Windows, but

BTW, I've heard some time ago that Linux kernel contains some files
differing only in letter case. If this is the case, you may not be able to
upgrade to a newer kernel if your filesystem is case insensitive.
Obviously, this is not related to FPC so I suggest directing potential
responses to this part to fpc-other.

Tomas


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Graeme Geldenhuys-2
2012/2/24 Tomas Hajny :
> One concrete example - if you create a unit and store it in a file with a
> mixed case name, it will be found by the compiler in your case. If you
> share this source with someone else (also using Linux like you), it may
> not be found. This would be an equal problem if done by someone on
> Windows, but

As you mentioned, this is a problem with somebody using Windows &
Linux too. Luckily I'm quite accustomed to using lowercase unit names,
but mixed case names inside the 'unit xxx' line and uses clauses. So
this should pose a problem to me, thanks for mentioning it though.


> BTW, I've heard some time ago that Linux kernel contains some files
> differing only in letter case. If this is the case, you may not be able to

I have no idea if this is true or not. At the moment I am only
converting my /opt and /home partitions. These are the ones I modify
or create files in. The / partition is still case sensitive - so again
this shouldn't cause me troubles.


--
Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Mattias Gaertner
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-2
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:09:09 +0200
Graeme Geldenhuys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> [rant]
> I'm just sick of the idiocy of Linux/Unix with there case sensitive
> file systems! Google'ing a round for the reason for this, it seems
> that in the 60's, it was C programmers that decided that searching for
> case sensitive files was easier to implement (and marginally faster).
> Well, 40+ years later, that is totally irrelevant - yet we are still
> suck (by default) with case sensitive file systems. Mac OS X, Windows
> and OS/2 proves that there is no problems with case insensitive file
> systems, even for various locales. It also makes it MUCH easier for
> the end-user. I see no reason why Linux must still be stuck with this.
> Anyway, that is why I am busy reformatting all my JFS file systems (I
> have long ago standardised on JFS) with the -O option to make them
> case insensitive.
> [/rant]

The whole last week I cursed the opposite direction (first windows, then OS X).
It seems it depends on the current task.

 
> Anyway, back to the point.... I seriously doubt there would be any
> problems, but I'll ask anyway. Has anybody here used JFS (case
> insensitive option enabled) with FPC and experienced any problems? I
> doubt there would be, because Mac OS X by default is case insensitive
> too - and it is also a *nix system.

Linux can handle both. But many Linux tools only support case sensitive
files.

 
> In the same breath, any possible Lazarus issues?

Lazarus expects by default case sensitive file names under Linux.
OTOH it tries to find the real file name at various places so it can
find more units than the compiler. For example sources copied from
Windows.
The Delphi converter fixes uses and includes.
Some users are using Lazarus with samba shares and ntfs mounts.

You can get similar problems when copying code from Windows to OS X,
because OS X is not only case insensitive, it normalizes UTF
characters.

 
> PS:
> Anybody know of other Linux file systems that have a case insensitive
> option? I really thought ext2 had this, but searching now through the
> man pages, it seems I was mistaken. Anybody know if Btrfs would have
> such an option?

Wikipedia has various tables comparing file systems.

My recommendation: If you have the choice, use the OS defaults.
Many programs will fail otherwise.

Mattias
 
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Henry Vermaak
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-2
On 24/02/12 11:09, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

> Hi,
>
> [rant]
> I'm just sick of the idiocy of Linux/Unix with there case sensitive
> file systems! Google'ing a round for the reason for this, it seems
> that in the 60's, it was C programmers that decided that searching for
> case sensitive files was easier to implement (and marginally faster).
> Well, 40+ years later, that is totally irrelevant - yet we are still
> suck (by default) with case sensitive file systems. Mac OS X, Windows
> and OS/2 proves that there is no problems with case insensitive file
> systems, even for various locales. It also makes it MUCH easier for
> the end-user. I see no reason why Linux must still be stuck with this.
> Anyway, that is why I am busy reformatting all my JFS file systems (I
> have long ago standardised on JFS) with the -O option to make them
> case insensitive.
> [/rant]

Because case sensitive systems don't create as much confusion.
Converting something to upper case is a bit more tricky in some
languages.  Look at the git macosx (hfs+) screwup a couple of years ago,
because of how hfs+ normalizes unicode.  Also the Turkish I is a classic
stumbling block:

http://www.i18nguy.com/unicode/turkish-i18n.html

You also seem to assume that file names will always be words.  Can they
not be codes or hashes?  Why will you then want to throw away 26
perfectly good characters?

Basically, it all depends what you are doing and what your experiences
are.  At the end of the day, a computer thinks that "a" is 97 and "A" is
65, but what humans perceive is more complicated.

Henry
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Mark Morgan Lloyd-5
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-2
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [rant]
> I'm just sick of the idiocy of Linux/Unix with there case sensitive
> file systems! Google'ing a round for the reason for this, it seems
> that in the 60's, it was C programmers that decided that searching for
> case sensitive files was easier to implement (and marginally faster).

I find that rather difficult to believe, since C was barely conceived in
the '60s, and back in those days the dominant character I/O devices were
(EBCDIC) punched cards and the (ASCII) ASR-33- both of which IIRC were
de-facto uppercase-only.

Now it might be that by the time the Bell workers were hacking UNIX and
C that they'd got video terminals with full character sets, and it might
be that they gravitated towards lower-case because of received wisdom
that the increased variation between letters makes them easier to read.
But in any event their reluctance to assume any particular mapping
between upper- and lower-case was probably influenced by the fact that
there were still two major character sets (EBCDIC and ASCII) as well as
several minor ones some of which were being used by the US government
(e.g. Fieldata). As discussed in the context of an IBM mainframe port of
FPC, it's bad enough having to deal with multiple mappings in the system
library without having to define them as part of the language.

In any event, history has shown that they probably made the right
decision, and similarly made the right decision when they pegged UNIX
timestamps to GMT/UTC. The fact that Microsoft made different choices
has caused nothing but grief.

All of which suggests that at the current time, when increasing numbers
of people are wrestling with Unicode, we should all be very much aware
of the possible problems that converting (or not) between similar
characters can cause. For example, I found myself writing this yesterday:

       $50: { p P } inject:= #$002A; { * }
       $DB: { [  } inject:= #$2190; { ← }
       $DD: { ]  } inject:= #$2192; { → }

Some founts (e.g. the one used by default by GTK2 Lazarus) use almost
identical glyphs for the braces in those comments, and it's only a
matter of time before somebody with more ingenuity than common sense
tries to use these to slip backdoor code past the casual reviewer.

So in summary, (not) translating characters is something that shouldn't
be approached without deep understanding of the issues.

> Anybody know of other Linux file systems that have a case insensitive
> option? I really thought ext2 had this, but searching now through the
> man pages, it seems I was mistaken. Anybody know if Btrfs would have
> such an option?

The obvious ones are Windows and possibly CD filesystems mounted with
appropriate options:

# Additional devices.

/dev/fd0   /mnt/floppy vfat    noauto,user,shortname=winnt     0   0
/dev/hda4  /mnt/zip    vfat    noauto,user,shortname=winnt     0   0
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom  iso9660 noauto,user,ro                  0   0

This obviously includes USB mass storage devices such as cameras.

Not sure about btrfs. I tried using it a few months ago but it was very
unclear whether I was getting any useful compression when it was
enabled, I subsequently discovered that that depends on kernel version-
frankly, it's too near the "bleeding edge" to be used in anger.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Sven Barth-2
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-2

Am 24.02.2012 12:09 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys" <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi,
>
> [rant]
> I'm just sick of the idiocy of Linux/Unix with there case sensitive
> file systems! Google'ing a round for the reason for this, it seems
> that in the 60's, it was C programmers that decided that searching for
> case sensitive files was easier to implement (and marginally faster).
> Well, 40+ years later, that is totally irrelevant - yet we are still
> suck (by default) with case sensitive file systems. Mac OS X, Windows
> and OS/2 proves that there is no problems with case insensitive file
> systems, even for various locales. It also makes it MUCH easier for
> the end-user. I see no reason why Linux must still be stuck with this.
> Anyway, that is why I am busy reformatting all my JFS file systems (I
> have long ago standardised on JFS) with the -O option to make them
> case insensitive.
> [/rant]
>
>
> Anyway, back to the point.... I seriously doubt there would be any
> problems, but I'll ask anyway. Has anybody here used JFS (case
> insensitive option enabled) with FPC and experienced any problems? I
> doubt there would be, because Mac OS X by default is case insensitive
> too - and it is also a *nix system.
>
> In the same breath, any possible Lazarus issues?
>
>
> PS:
> Anybody know of other Linux file systems that have a case insensitive
> option? I really thought ext2 had this, but searching now through the
> man pages, it seems I was mistaken. Anybody know if Btrfs would have
> such an option?

Did you know that NTFS itself is also a case sensitive filesystem? Also the Windows kernel can handle case sensitive files and directories. It's just the Win32 subsystem that does the lowercase thing (by passing a option for case insensitivity to the kernel's functions).

One can see that in two cases besides looking at the source (of ReactOS):
- use a ext2 filesystem with e.g. Ext2IFS (it should already contain files with different casing only)
- use the Posix subsystem which allows the creation of case sensitive files on NTFS

Windows Explorer and Cmd's dir will display those files, but you can edit only the contents of one file. Using the Posix subsystem or by direct access to the kernel's you can work with these files correctly though.

Regards,
Sven


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Sven Barth said:
> > Anybody know of other Linux file systems that have a case insensitive
> > option? I really thought ext2 had this, but searching now through the
> > man pages, it seems I was mistaken. Anybody know if Btrfs would have
> > such an option?
>
> Did you know that NTFS itself is also a case sensitive filesystem?

NTFS is a scary superset of all filesystems that NT had to support as a
server, which is why it also supports sparse and multi-forked files.

A small correction though, that the common implementation of NTFS  (read: NT
and derivatives) don't allow to change most of those properties anymore,
since there are only global settings for it, and changing them will
invalidate your bootdrive.

I found that out the hard way when I changed the setting equivalent to
noatime....

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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

shiruba2012
In reply to this post by Mattias Gaertner
Hi,
> You can get similar problems when copying code from Windows to OS X,
> because OS X is not only case insensitive, it normalizes UTF
> characters.

Well that's a good thing in the long run, because you can guarantee more matches if you always normalize.
>
>
> My recommendation: If you have the choice, use the OS defaults.
> Many programs will fail otherwise.
>

Heh, I use the case sensitive option on os x, and it hasn't caused me any issues yet - but then that's a bit of a different situation.

> Mattias
>

-- Noah
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Graeme Geldenhuys-2
In reply to this post by Henry Vermaak
On 24 February 2012 16:13, Henry Vermaak wrote:
>
> Because case sensitive systems don't create as much confusion.


Here my thoughts are the opposite. While backing up my data no an
external drive with is case insensitive I came across a lot of
possible issues I never realised I had on my case sensitive Linux file
system.

eg:
  In one source code directory I had files as follows:
       tiDefines.inc
       tidefines.inc

Backing this up to a case insensitive file system, I program prompted
me that the origin file was going to be replaced? So, looking at those
files on my Linux (case sensitive) file system, which one is actually
the latest version? To find out, I had to fire up Beyond Compare and
to a content comparison.

This actually happened quite a few times with many of my source code.
This all probably got introduced when I moved source code over from
Windows to Linux some 6 years ago.

Confusing now? Definitely! Did Linux warn me, nope. Does the compiler
know which one to actually use - no idea. How does Lazarus know which
one to open (because Lazarus searches for multiple case files) - no
idea?


Then lets look at it from an average user's point of view. Must they
really be confronted with multiple files in a single folder named:

   test.txt
   Test.txt
   Test.Txt
   TEST.TXT
   test.TXT
   ....

All the user wants to do, is open a "test dot t x t" file. Under Linux
they could be confronted with multiple versions? Very confusing.

I like to CamelCase my file names - it makes them easier to read in a
file listing. But when I reference them in say a search dialog, I'll
probably type them in all lowercase for speed reason. I would still
like Linux to find that file though - but it wouldn't.

As I, and it seems many others on the Internet, have found - there
really isn't a good reason why Linux must still use case sensitive
file systems. Windows supports multiple locales and has 95% of the
computer market - it doesn't have case sensitive file systems. Mac OS
X by default doesn't either (though they are nice enough to give you
the choice). I think Linux should give you the choice too.

Anyway, hopefully my newly formatted JFS partitions will sort this out.


>  At the end of the day, a computer thinks that "a" is 97 and "A" is 65, but
> what humans perceive is more complicated.

And a computer should serve a human, not the other way round.  Read
the excellent book "About Face 3".


--
Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Graeme Geldenhuys-2
In reply to this post by Mattias Gaertner
On 24 February 2012 15:57, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
>
> The whole last week I cursed the opposite direction (first windows, then OS X).
> It seems it depends on the current task.

:-)


> Linux can handle both. But many Linux tools only support case sensitive
> files.

Well, in a case insensitive file system, there will only be one copy
of a specific file name in a directory. So the Linux tools should get
confused with which one to open or use. So I don't really think it is
going to be a problem.  I guess I'll find out in the coming week.  :-)


> My recommendation: If you have the choice, use the OS defaults.
> Many programs will fail otherwise.

In the case of Linux, there is no "default". Linux is just the kernel.
The Linux distro's on the other hand all make different choices. Some
distros choose ReiserFS, others Ext3, others Ext4, others JFS, some
are now experimenting with Btrfs etc.

Anyway, our company has done extensive testing (a couple years ago)
with performance and failure recovery of various file systems for
Linux, and JFS has come up tops. I personally have standardised on JFS
for many years. Only now am I deciding to switch to the case
insensitive option though. Luckily I have a choice under Linux.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if anybody knew of any blatant issues
with FPC or Lazarus on a case insensitive file system, but I guess
with Windows and Mac OS X being around, it is safe to assume
everything will continue to work as normal.

--
Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Jürgen Hestermann
In reply to this post by Graeme Geldenhuys-2
Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb:
 > On 24 February 2012 16:13, Henry Vermaak wrote:
 >> Because case sensitive systems don't create as much confusion.
 > Here my thoughts are the opposite. While backing up my data no an
 > external drive with is case insensitive I came across a lot of
 > possible issues I never realised I had on my case sensitive Linux file
 > system.
 > eg:
 >   In one source code directory I had files as follows:
 >        tiDefines.inc
 >        tidefines.inc
 > Backing this up to a case insensitive file system, I program prompted
 > me that the origin file was going to be replaced? So, looking at those
 > files on my Linux (case sensitive) file system, which one is actually
 > the latest version? To find out, I had to fire up Beyond Compare and
 > to a content comparison.
 > This actually happened quite a few times with many of my source code.
 > This all probably got introduced when I moved source code over from
 > Windows to Linux some 6 years ago.
 > Confusing now? Definitely! Did Linux warn me, nope. Does the compiler
 > know which one to actually use - no idea. How does Lazarus know which
 > one to open (because Lazarus searches for multiple case files) - no
 > idea?
 > Then lets look at it from an average user's point of view. Must they
 > really be confronted with multiple files in a single folder named:
 >    test.txt
 >    Test.txt
 >    Test.Txt
 >    TEST.TXT
 >    test.TXT
 >    ....
 > All the user wants to do, is open a "test dot t x t" file. Under Linux
 > they could be confronted with multiple versions? Very confusing.
 > I like to CamelCase my file names - it makes them easier to read in a
 > file listing. But when I reference them in say a search dialog, I'll
 > probably type them in all lowercase for speed reason. I would still
 > like Linux to find that file though - but it wouldn't.
 > As I, and it seems many others on the Internet, have found - there
 > really isn't a good reason why Linux must still use case sensitive
 > file systems. Windows supports multiple locales and has 95% of the
 > computer market - it doesn't have case sensitive file systems. Mac OS
 > X by default doesn't either (though they are nice enough to give you
 > the choice). I think Linux should give you the choice too.
 >
 >
 > Anyway, hopefully my newly formatted JFS partitions will sort this out.
 >>  At the end of the day, a computer thinks that "a" is 97 and "A" is
65, but
 >> what humans perceive is more complicated.
 > And a computer should serve a human, not the other way round.  Read
 > the excellent book "About Face 3".


I wholeheartly agree with you on case sensitive file names. It's a crap.
I never understood why they created such a nonsense.
And now generations of Linux users have to suffer from it.
For me it's one of the last obstacles on the way to Linux.

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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Virgo Pärna
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 17:35:38 +0100, Jürgen Hestermann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I wholeheartly agree with you on case sensitive file names. It's a crap.
> I never understood why they created such a nonsense.
>

    Case sensitive filesystem with file names written on different on different
character set than current used to be real disaster. Unicode solves it partially, but
really - case insensitive comparisions are language dependent. You need to know the
language of filename. And I'm really not sure, how German ß would be handled.
    Essentialy, case insensitive filesystems are less problematic.

--
Virgo Pärna
[hidden email]

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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Sven Barth-2
Am 27.02.2012 10:11, schrieb Virgo Pärna:

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 17:35:38 +0100, Jürgen Hestermann<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>> I wholeheartly agree with you on case sensitive file names. It's a crap.
>> I never understood why they created such a nonsense.
>>
>
>      Case sensitive filesystem with file names written on different on different
> character set than current used to be real disaster. Unicode solves it partially, but
> really - case insensitive comparisions are language dependent. You need to know the
> language of filename. And I'm really not sure, how German ß would be handled.
>      Essentialy, case insensitive filesystems are less problematic.
>

Since last or second last year there is a capital ß. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_%E1%BA%9E

Regards,
Sven
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Jürgen Hestermann
In reply to this post by Virgo Pärna
Virgo Pärna schrieb:
>     Essentialy, case insensitive filesystems are less problematic.
>  
No, just the opposite. The  problems are only moved (and increased) from
the techie level (where it should belong to) to the user.
This is not a good idea IMO.
If there problems with capitalization of certain characters exist then
these problems should be solved or
if that's not possible for some reason such characters should not be
allowed in file systems.

But giving it all over to the user and tell him  "We did not know how to
handle this mess, just try yourself" is not a solution.


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Alberto Narduzzi
> If there problems with capitalization of certain characters exist then
> these problems should be solved or
> if that's not possible for some reason such characters should not be
> allowed in file systems.
>
> But giving it all over to the user and tell him "We did not know how to
> handle this mess, just try yourself" is not a solution.

I may partially agree on this one, because as you well may name a
document fußstraße.doc, but I strongly believe you won't for a .pas one...
Programmers should get their feet back on programming, not on the
filesystem bells and whistles, IMHO.

While you cannot force an end user not to use certain characters for the
filenames, you certainly can a developer; as far as he knows a bit of
the tools he's dealing with. And he should.

Cheers, A.
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Mark Morgan Lloyd-5
Alberto Narduzzi wrote:

>> If there problems with capitalization of certain characters exist then
>> these problems should be solved or
>> if that's not possible for some reason such characters should not be
>> allowed in file systems.
>>
>> But giving it all over to the user and tell him "We did not know how to
>> handle this mess, just try yourself" is not a solution.
>
> I may partially agree on this one, because as you well may name a
> document fußstraße.doc, but I strongly believe you won't for a .pas one...
> Programmers should get their feet back on programming, not on the
> filesystem bells and whistles, IMHO.
>
> While you cannot force an end user not to use certain characters for the
> filenames, you certainly can a developer; as far as he knows a bit of
> the tools he's dealing with. And he should.

It might be in order for the language to insist that program/unit names
have certain properties, and that the files containing them have some
relationship to the internal names. Anything else is unacceptable: it's
not the prerogative of the tool to determine what the programs it
generates can be used for.

The simplest solution is to assume that if the end user has selected a
case-sensitive filesystem that he's had good reasons to do so, and not
to try to overrule or protect him.

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Graeme Geldenhuys-2
In reply to this post by Jürgen Hestermann
On 27 February 2012 18:58, Jürgen Hestermann  wrote:
>
>>    Essentialy, case insensitive filesystems are less problematic.
>>
>
> No, just the opposite. The  problems are only moved (and increased) from the
> techie level (where it should belong to) to the user.


No, just the opposite. :-)  See my earlier message about various
examples of "test.txt". There is no reason a end-users should be
subjected to a 101 various spellings of a file, when all the user
wanted to do was open a file named "text dot t x t".

Also see my point about Mac OS X and Windows (the one that has 95% of
the computer market).


I have worked all day today on my system after I have done the JFS
conversion on Friday, to be case insensitive. I have recompiled FPC,
Lazarus, MSEide, fpGUI, tiOPF... none gave any problems. I did new git
clone and git pull and git commit commands without any problems. I
have searched for files using various tools or applications  - which
now finally works well. I have opened various ODT documents which
reference external images etc - again no problems. I did find-in-files
searches using various programmer editors - again no problems.

So far I am very happy with the switch, and the knowledge that I can't
have duplicate source code files like Learner.pas and learner.pas in
the same directories any more. Thus FPC and Lazarus can't get confused
about them either.

It's a win-win all the way. Clearly 99% of the computer market (that's
Windows+Mac OS X usage count) can't be all wrong.

I'm also happy to say that the state of the art file system, that's
ZFS, also has an option to enable case insensitive usage. Brilliant,
because I want to use FreeBSD with ZFS pretty soon.

To all the other that still think case sensitive file systems make
sense, please do some Google searching. There are so many problems
listed, I still can't believe Linux people use case sensitive file
systems. Another example: web servers on Unix/Linux. If the user types
the url with say Index.HTML, that is different to index.html. Apache
has a special "spelling" module to overcome this issue. So now apps
have to fix issues due to file systems!


--
Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: FPC with case insensitive file system under Linux

Graeme Geldenhuys-2
2012/2/28 Flávio Etrusco <flavio.etrusco@g....>:
> That's a fantastic tip. I'll have to try it :)

Yeah, and I would never have found that issue, if I didn't move my
data over to a case insensitive file system.


> Did you notice any speed gain in compilation time, by chance? ;)

I didn't really pay attention to that, so I have no idea.


> matching. (OTOH JFS didn't perform exactly great when I last tried it
> some years ago)

Strange, with our in-house testing we found JFS to have very good
performance, especially over ext3, ext4 and Reiserfs. ReiserFS had
some strange things going on, and made the hard drive work it's ass
off, even while nobody was using the system (just standing there
idle). Maybe ReiserFS was doing BTree balancing or something - no
idea, but we didn't like it.


--
Regards,
  - Graeme -


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