FPC 2.4.2 source

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FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
Hi

Maybe I am stupid but I don't know how to download FPC 2.4.2 sources, without
using SVN repository.
I am testing on Windows and the default installation package does not contain
sources.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Jonas Maebe-2

On 10 May 2011, at 00:14, Juha (gmail) wrote:

> Maybe I am stupid but I don't know how to download FPC 2.4.2 sources, without
> using SVN repository.

http://www.freepascal.org/download.var -> Source (under the links to the Binaries)


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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
Jonas Maebe kirjoitti tiistai, 10. toukokuuta 2011 01:16:38:
> On 10 May 2011, at 00:14, Juha (gmail) wrote:
> > Maybe I am stupid but I don't know how to download FPC 2.4.2 sources,
> > without using SVN repository.
>
> http://www.freepascal.org/download.var -> Source (under the links to the
> Binaries)

I am trying to load the source on Windows under a VM.

I open http://www.freepascal.org/download.var
-> Source ... it opens:
http://www.freepascal.org/down/source/sources.var
-> SourceForge link ... there Win32 which seems to be the most popular one.
Select 2.4.2 -> download fpc-2.4.2.i386-win32.exe

I run the installer. Location = C:\FPC\2.4.2.
First time I used the "Full installation" but now I select "Custom
installation". All checkboxes are checked but there is NO source.
I don't see the sources in file system either.

I have recommended to some poeople to install FPC release version and then
compile Lazarus trunk from source.
In practice the FPC sources are needed for Lazarus.
I can imagine how frustrated those people are now.

I noticed there is a new 2.4.4 version available. I will try that also.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Jonas Maebe-2

On 20 May 2011, at 12:50, Juha (gmail) wrote:

> Jonas Maebe kirjoitti tiistai, 10. toukokuuta 2011 01:16:38:
>> On 10 May 2011, at 00:14, Juha (gmail) wrote:
>>> Maybe I am stupid but I don't know how to download FPC 2.4.2 sources,
>>> without using SVN repository.
>>
>> http://www.freepascal.org/download.var -> Source (under the links to the
>> Binaries)
>
> I am trying to load the source on Windows under a VM.
>
> I open http://www.freepascal.org/download.var
> -> Source ... it opens:
> http://www.freepascal.org/down/source/sources.var
> -> SourceForge link ... there Win32 which seems to be the most popular one.

If you want the source, choose "Source" instead of "Win32".


Jonas
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
Jonas Maebe kirjoitti perjantai, 20. toukokuuta 2011 13:52:22:
> If you want the source, choose "Source" instead of "Win32".

Ok, right.... too many links.
Now i realized that all the mirrors give direct links to source packages, only
the first SourceForge link has everything included.

The sources could well be included in the default FPC installation package.
Most people need them anyway and they don't add much to the package size when
compressed. At least everybody working with Lazarus needs the sources ... and
most people using FPC also use Lazarus, at least sometimes (?)

Installing and updating both FPC and Lazarus is still a major obstacle for
many people. We must improve things to make the first impression smoother.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Jonas Maebe-2

On 20 May 2011, at 13:07, Juha (gmail) wrote:

> Jonas Maebe kirjoitti perjantai, 20. toukokuuta 2011 13:52:22:
>> If you want the source, choose "Source" instead of "Win32".
>
> Ok, right.... too many links.
> Now i realized that all the mirrors give direct links to source packages, only
> the first SourceForge link has everything included.

That's because in the past, direct sourceforge links were no possible. Now they are possible, but we haven't spent the time yet to update the download links.

> The sources could well be included in the default FPC installation package.
> Most people need them anyway and they don't add much to the package size when
> compressed.

It depends on the compression that's used. It's 29MB with zip and 25MB with tar.gz. It would increase the download sizes between 30% and 50%, which is not what I would call "not much".


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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Mattias Gaertner
In reply to this post by Juha Manninen

 

 

"Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> hat am 20. Mai 2011 um 13:07 geschrieben:

> Jonas Maebe kirjoitti perjantai, 20. toukokuuta 2011 13:52:22:
> > If you want the source, choose "Source" instead of "Win32".
>
> Ok, right.... too many links.
> Now i realized that all the mirrors give direct links to source packages, only
> the first SourceForge link has everything included.
>
> The sources could well be included in the default FPC installation package.
> Most people need them anyway and they don't add much to the package size when
> compressed. At least everybody working with Lazarus needs the sources ... and
> most people using FPC also use Lazarus, at least sometimes (?)

 

Even without Lazarus I think the sources are more useful than some of the units and demos that are installed by default.

 

 

>
> Installing and updating both FPC and Lazarus is still a major obstacle for
> many people. We must improve things to make the first impression smoother.

For example?

Mattias


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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
Mattias Gaertner kirjoitti perjantai, 20. toukokuuta 2011 15:16:30:
>  "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> hat am 20. Mai 2011 um 13:07
>  > Installing and updating both FPC and Lazarus is still a major obstacle
>  > for many people. We must improve things to make the first impression
>  > smoother.
>
>  For example?

Some strange error pop up like #19289: Error on rebuild

  /usr/lib64/lazarus/ide/lazarus.pp(130,1) Error: Can't call the resource
compiler "/usr/bin/fpcres", switching to external mode

It is a single case, but the forum had many complaints when people updated
from 0.9.28 to 0.9.30. Also when people try to compile trunk and they had a
release version earlier, they often have problems.
A typical one is:
  can't find unit xxx needed by unit yyy.

Those people have usually cleaned their file system and deleted local config
files. So, updating seems to be a bigger problem than a fresh install.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Mattias Gaertner
On Fri, 20 May 2011 20:43:01 +0300
"Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mattias Gaertner kirjoitti perjantai, 20. toukokuuta 2011 15:16:30:
> >  "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> hat am 20. Mai 2011 um 13:07
> >  > Installing and updating both FPC and Lazarus is still a major obstacle
> >  > for many people. We must improve things to make the first impression
> >  > smoother.
> >
> >  For example?
>
> Some strange error pop up like #19289: Error on rebuild
>
>   /usr/lib64/lazarus/ide/lazarus.pp(130,1) Error: Can't call the resource
> compiler "/usr/bin/fpcres", switching to external mode

What could be the reason for this?
What can be done to help solving this?

 
> It is a single case, but the forum had many complaints when people updated
> from 0.9.28 to 0.9.30. Also when people try to compile trunk and they had a
> release version earlier, they often have problems.
> A typical one is:
>   can't find unit xxx needed by unit yyy.

There are more than 20 reasons for this. I started a page for this.
Feel free to improve the page.
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Unit_not_found_-_How_to_find_units

Lazarus has a test button checking for several misconfigurations and
there is a quickfix item. Feel free to improve them.

 
> Those people have usually cleaned their file system and deleted local config
> files. So, updating seems to be a bigger problem than a fresh install.


Mattias
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
Mattias Gaertner kirjoitti lauantai, 21. toukokuuta 2011 10:47:44:
> > A typical one is:
> >   can't find unit xxx needed by unit yyy.
>
> There are more than 20 reasons for this. I started a page for this.
> Feel free to improve the page.
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Unit_not_found_-_How_to_find_units
>
> Lazarus has a test button checking for several misconfigurations and
> there is a quickfix item. Feel free to improve them.

I know you have worked on it. I don't even know how to improve it myself.

Anyway, I feel that easy installation and update is the "killer feature" for
new people who want to try FPC/Lazarus but don't want to spend much time with
it. They move on if they can't easily install.
I have the same feeling with some SW which I can't install easily. I have many
other things to test and I move on.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Florian Klämpfl
Am 21.05.2011 10:12, schrieb Juha (gmail):

> Mattias Gaertner kirjoitti lauantai, 21. toukokuuta 2011 10:47:44:
>>> A typical one is:
>>>   can't find unit xxx needed by unit yyy.
>>
>> There are more than 20 reasons for this. I started a page for this.
>> Feel free to improve the page.
>> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Unit_not_found_-_How_to_find_units
>>
>> Lazarus has a test button checking for several misconfigurations and
>> there is a quickfix item. Feel free to improve them.
>
> I know you have worked on it. I don't even know how to improve it myself.
>
> Anyway, I feel that easy installation and update is the "killer feature" for
> new people who want to try FPC/Lazarus but don't want to spend much time with
> it.

Huge downloads might be also a killer ;)

> They move on if they can't easily install.
> I have the same feeling with some SW which I can't install easily. I have many
> other things to test and I move on.

I think beginners always just use the lazarus installer and it works
fine. One gets only in trouble when messing with installers and svn sources.
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Rainer Stratmann
Am Saturday 21 May 2011 10:22:53 schrieb Florian Klämpfl:

> > Anyway, I feel that easy installation and update is the "killer feature"
> > for new people who want to try FPC/Lazarus but don't want to spend much
> > time with it.
>
> Huge downloads might be also a killer ;)
>
> > They move on if they can't easily install.
> > I have the same feeling with some SW which I can't install easily. I have
> > many other things to test and I move on.
>
> I think beginners always just use the lazarus installer and it works
> fine. One gets only in trouble when messing with installers and svn
> sources.

Easy installation and handling is always very important.
Otherwise it can become boring very fast, even if one is a technical
specialist.

Huge downloads are easy to handle these days.

When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb packages I got
in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.

It is like Juha said: They move on if they can't easily install.
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
Rainer Stratmann kirjoitti lauantai, 21. toukokuuta 2011 11:32:46:
> Easy installation and handling is always very important.
> Otherwise it can become boring very fast, even if one is a technical
> specialist.
>
> Huge downloads are easy to handle these days.

True. Most people have fast internet connections. 50 MB is not a problem.
The words "fast" and "huge" are relative. In today's standards 50 MB is not
huge, it is rather small.
I have a "fast" 1 Mbit/s ADSL connection. I have realized it is not so fast
any more. Even a public WLAN can be 50 times faster!
Still, it is perfectly enough for me. Some big DVD images take many days to
download but it happens in background with torrent p2p.

For the people still using slow modems or lines charged by data, smaller
alternative packets can be made of course.


> When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb packages I
> got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.

Yes. Based on forum posts updating causes more problems, also when updating
between releases, not only when compiling from svn sources.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Mattias Gaertner
On Sat, 21 May 2011 12:12:59 +0300
"Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>[...]
> > When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb packages I
> > got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.

What troubles?

 
> Yes. Based on forum posts updating causes more problems, also when updating
> between releases, not only when compiling from svn sources.

What problems?

Please name a specific problem, so we can discuss a solution.

Mattias
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Bernd Kreuss
On 21.05.2011 11:29, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> On Sat, 21 May 2011 12:12:59 +0300
> "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>> When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb packages I
>>> got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.
>
> What troubles?

The thing I have never understood is why it split into a myriad of
different .deb files while it really only needs to be the following:

* lazarus.deb
* fpc.deb
* fpc-source.deb

and maybe even alternatively for lazy people like me something like

* lazarus-complete.deb (provides: lazarus, fpc, fpc-source)

I'm not sure about the exact entries in the deb control files (provides,
depends, replaces, etc.) to achieve this magic but I think it should be
possible, shouldn't it?

Bernd
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Juha Manninen
In reply to this post by Mattias Gaertner
Mattias Gaertner kirjoitti lauantai, 21. toukokuuta 2011 12:29:34:
> "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Yes. Based on forum posts updating causes more problems, also when
> > updating between releases, not only when compiling from svn sources.
>
> What problems?
> Please name a specific problem, so we can discuss a solution.

Most of them got solved somehow, or maybe the people got fed up and stopped
asking. "can't find unit xxx needed by unit yyy" is a typical one.
The posts can be searched from forum, I will see if I have time.

Juha
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Rainer Stratmann
In reply to this post by Bernd Kreuss
Am Saturday 21 May 2011 11:47:28 schrieb Bernd Kreuss:

> On 21.05.2011 11:29, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 May 2011 12:12:59 +0300
> >
> > "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb
> >>> packages I got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.
> >
> > What troubles?
>
> The thing I have never understood is why it split into a myriad of
> different .deb files while it really only needs to be the following:
>
> * lazarus.deb
> * fpc.deb
> * fpc-source.deb
>
> and maybe even alternatively for lazy people like me something like
>
> * lazarus-complete.deb (provides: lazarus, fpc, fpc-source)
>
> I'm not sure about the exact entries in the deb control files (provides,
> depends, replaces, etc.) to achieve this magic but I think it should be
> possible, shouldn't it?

For userfriednly reasons it would be the best that there are less or no
dependencies.
It is for userfriendly reasons better to overwrite all config files and have a
working solution than to fight with the huge dependencies.

> Bernd
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Rainer Stratmann
In reply to this post by Mattias Gaertner
Am Saturday 21 May 2011 11:29:34 schrieb Mattias Gaertner:

> On Sat, 21 May 2011 12:12:59 +0300
>
> "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >[...]
> >
> > > When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb
> > > packages I got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.
>
> What troubles?
>
> > Yes. Based on forum posts updating causes more problems, also when
> > updating between releases, not only when compiling from svn sources.
>
> What problems?
>
> Please name a specific problem, so we can discuss a solution.

<aten/fpc/lazarus-9.0.30/lcl-units-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb' ;echo RESULT=$?
Wähle vormals abgewähltes Paket lcl-units-0.9.30.
(Lese Datenbank ... 159373 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit
installiert.)
Entpacke lcl-units-0.9.30 (aus .../lcl-units-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb) ...
dpkg: Abhängigkeitsprobleme verhindern Konfiguration von lcl-units-0.9.30:
 lcl-units-0.9.30 hängt ab von lcl-gtk2-0.9.30 (= 0.9.30-0) | lcl-gtk-0.9.30
(= 0.9.30-0) | lcl-qt-0.9.30 (= 0.9.30-0); aber:
  Paket lcl-gtk2-0.9.30 ist nicht installiert.
  Paket lcl-gtk-0.9.30 ist nicht installiert.
  Paket lcl-qt-0.9.30 ist nicht installiert.
dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von lcl-units-0.9.30 (--install):
 Abhängigkeitsprobleme - lasse es unkonfiguriert
Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
 lcl-units-0.9.30
RESULT=1
 
<aten/fpc/lazarus-9.0.30/lcl-qt4-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb' ;echo RESULT=$?
Wähle vormals abgewähltes Paket lcl-qt4-0.9.30.
(Lese Datenbank ... 161332 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit
installiert.)
Entpacke lcl-qt4-0.9.30 (aus .../lcl-qt4-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb) ...
dpkg: Abhängigkeitsprobleme verhindern Konfiguration von lcl-qt4-0.9.30:
 lcl-qt4-0.9.30 hängt ab von libqt4pas-dev; aber:
  Paket libqt4pas-dev ist nicht installiert.
dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von lcl-qt4-0.9.30 (--install):
 Abhängigkeitsprobleme - lasse es unkonfiguriert
Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
 lcl-qt4-0.9.30
RESULT=1
 


> Mattias
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Mattias Gaertner
In reply to this post by Bernd Kreuss
On Sat, 21 May 2011 11:47:28 +0200
Bernd Kreuss <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21.05.2011 11:29, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 May 2011 12:12:59 +0300
> > "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> [...]
> >>> When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb packages I
> >>> got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.
> >
> > What troubles?
>
> The thing I have never understood is why it split into a myriad of
> different .deb files

Because of Debian policies.
The deb package are made for the repositories, so the number of
packages are irrelevant. You install one and automatically get all
needed.

> while it really only needs to be the following:
>
> * lazarus.deb
> * fpc.deb
> * fpc-source.deb
>
> and maybe even alternatively for lazy people like me something like
>
> * lazarus-complete.deb (provides: lazarus, fpc, fpc-source)

Theoretically we could provide an extra set of deb packages (or
maybe just one). But they will bite the standard ones, so this opens
another can of worms.

 
> I'm not sure about the exact entries in the deb control files (provides,
> depends, replaces, etc.) to achieve this magic but I think it should be
> possible, shouldn't it?

Yes, but it is continuous work. I doubt that the debian package
maintainers will do it.

Mattias
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Re: FPC 2.4.2 source

Mattias Gaertner
In reply to this post by Rainer Stratmann
On Sat, 21 May 2011 11:57:42 +0200
Rainer Stratmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Saturday 21 May 2011 11:29:34 schrieb Mattias Gaertner:
> > On Sat, 21 May 2011 12:12:59 +0300
> >
> > "Juha (gmail)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >[...]
> > >
> > > > When trying to update the new lazarus and fpc binaries with deb
> > > > packages I got in trouble with dependancies. Then I abort it.
> >
> > What troubles?
> >
> > > Yes. Based on forum posts updating causes more problems, also when
> > > updating between releases, not only when compiling from svn sources.
> >
> > What problems?
> >
> > Please name a specific problem, so we can discuss a solution.
>
> <aten/fpc/lazarus-9.0.30/lcl-units-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb' ;echo RESULT=$?
> Wähle vormals abgewähltes Paket lcl-units-0.9.30.
> (Lese Datenbank ... 159373 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit
> installiert.)
> Entpacke lcl-units-0.9.30 (aus .../lcl-units-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: Abhängigkeitsprobleme verhindern Konfiguration von lcl-units-0.9.30:
>  lcl-units-0.9.30 hängt ab von lcl-gtk2-0.9.30 (= 0.9.30-0) | lcl-gtk-0.9.30
> (= 0.9.30-0) | lcl-qt-0.9.30 (= 0.9.30-0); aber:
>   Paket lcl-gtk2-0.9.30 ist nicht installiert.
>   Paket lcl-gtk-0.9.30 ist nicht installiert.
>   Paket lcl-qt-0.9.30 ist nicht installiert.
> dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von lcl-units-0.9.30 (--install):
>  Abhängigkeitsprobleme - lasse es unkonfiguriert
> Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
>  lcl-units-0.9.30
> RESULT=1
>  
> <aten/fpc/lazarus-9.0.30/lcl-qt4-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb' ;echo RESULT=$?
> Wähle vormals abgewähltes Paket lcl-qt4-0.9.30.
> (Lese Datenbank ... 161332 Dateien und Verzeichnisse sind derzeit
> installiert.)
> Entpacke lcl-qt4-0.9.30 (aus .../lcl-qt4-0.9.30_0.9.30-0_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: Abhängigkeitsprobleme verhindern Konfiguration von lcl-qt4-0.9.30:
>  lcl-qt4-0.9.30 hängt ab von libqt4pas-dev; aber:
>   Paket libqt4pas-dev ist nicht installiert.
> dpkg: Fehler beim Bearbeiten von lcl-qt4-0.9.30 (--install):
>  Abhängigkeitsprobleme - lasse es unkonfiguriert
> Fehler traten auf beim Bearbeiten von:
>  lcl-qt4-0.9.30
> RESULT=1

They are typical dpkg messages. This is pretty normal when installing
deb packages manually. That is not specific to Lazarus or FPC.
The problem is that the tar contains *all* packages, but
normally you don't want to install all of them. A README.txt would
help. For example:
If you want to install the gtk2 version of Lazarus use:
  dpkg -i foogtk.deb bar.deb etc.deb
If you want to install the qt version of Lazarus use:
  dpkg -i fooqt.deb bar.deb etc.deb


Mattias
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